What it’s like to be a man
In this heartfelt return episode of the Council of Fathers Podcast, Noah and Dave dive deep into what it means to be a man—and a father—in today’s world. Drawing inspiration from Jungian analyst James Hollis, they unpack three forms of disconnection men often face: isolation from meaningful friendship, from their own inner guidance, and from a culture that values them only for productivity.
Through personal stories and rich reflection, they explore how men can reclaim connection—with themselves, with each other, and with something greater. Along the way, they share updates about upcoming Council of Fathers offerings, including the Sacred Fatherhood: Healing Triggers, Breaking Cycles workshop and the Fathering from the Heart 12-week online initiation beginning in January.
This conversation is a compass for men yearning to live with more authenticity, depth, and love.
Topics Covered:
Upcoming Council of Fathers offerings (8-week cohort, online workshop, and January program launch)
The James Hollis quote on the three losses men experience
Why male friendship and emotional intimacy are vital for wholeness
The cost of being disconnected from one’s inner voice
How cultural definitions of success can hollow out a man’s soul
The antidote: connection, community, and sacred fatherhood
Mentioned in This Episode:
Under Saturn’s Shadow by James Hollis
Iron John by Robert Bly
Council of Fathers offerings and upcoming events: counciloffathers.com
Register for the upcoming workshop, Sacred Fatherhood: Healing Triggers, Breaking Cycles → programs.counciloffathers.com
Transcript:
Noah: [00:00:00] Hi, and welcome to the Council of Fathers Podcast where we explore the wild journey of fatherhood. I am Noah.
and it's been a little while since we've released a podcast episode.
Dave: It's been a long
Noah: It's been
a long time. We've been really busy with a lot of different things.
Dave: So why are we doing one now?
Noah: Well, we wanted first of all to get back on that horse. 'cause it's not about how many times you fall off, it's about how many times you get back up. And we also wanted to let everyone know who's maybe not on the mailing list, which they should be
about some of the really exciting upcoming things going on.
I'll tell
Dave: tell 'em what's going on, Noah, what do we have going on? So many things.
Noah: many things. Later this month we are starting our in-person eight week Council of Fathers cohort. We meet [00:01:00] weekly from Thursday on Thursdays from seven 30 to 9:30 PM and we drop in. We support each other. We feel supported by each other.
We explore our experiences as dads who we are and what our challenges are, what our, what our joys and celebrations are.
Dave: Six to eight dads usually who are sharing similar experiences and building a little community. It's really, we'll talk in the episode today about why that's so important. But this is our, our staple are, are main offering and we're excited to, to start one later this month.
Noah: Yeah, and I want to say for anyone out there, obviously you can get all the information@counciloffathers.com and counts.
Dave: of fathers.com?
Noah: That's what I said. And I want to just highlight [00:02:00] that we have a sliding scale and on top of the sliding scale we do have scholarships. And so if you're looking at it and you're like, I really want to do this, but I don't know if I can make that work, please don't hesitate to reach out and connect with us.
And, and we, we try to make it so that anyone and everyone can participate somehow,
Dave: yeah, and tell any and all dads about it.
Totally
Noah: Totally
Dave: like 20 mile radius of Boulder,
Noah: We've had people down in Denver that's 40 miles.
Dave: that's true.
Noah: Yeah. And they made the trek up and they loved it.
So you
Dave: You get a nice commute to yourself. Listen to a podcast like this, like Council of Fathers. We had
Noah: We had someone from Thornton coming in. Anyway
Dave: what else do we have going
on?
Noah: do we have to go? Well, so. On Monday, October 20th at noon Colorado time. So during your lunch break, hopefully, if you have [00:03:00] one we are going to be doing an online workshop called Sacred Fatherhood Healing Triggers, breaking Cycles.
Dave: Sounds like good things to do.
Noah: It's a really good thing to do.
If you can't make it in person, you can register and you'll get a recorded version. And we're gonna dive into why we get triggered, how we get triggered, and.
How those events of rupture are actually beautiful, potent opportunities for repair, which actually deepens our relationships with our family members or friends.
But we're focused here on fatherhood mostly. And models something really critical. And we're also gonna just be weaving in more and more as a theme, just how I'm gonna use the word sacred, meaningful, purposeful, [00:04:00] like this whole journey of being a dad can and will be. And why, why that's relevant to, to what we're up to here.
Dave: what was the date on that one?
Noah: October 20th, Monday, October 20th.
Dave: at 12:00 PM Mountain Time. And that's open to people all over anywhere. You have a internet connection and there's a lot of people registered
Noah: Yeah. It's cool. It's really exciting. And you can, we will put the, the link to that in the show notes.
Dave: Excellent.
Is that it? That's all we got going on.
Noah: on.
No, it's
Dave: not, there's more,
Noah: it's not. Well, I, I'll say, I'll just say that we are, we're starting to run some alum programs, so deeper dives for, for, for dads who are, who have been through something that we've done. And, and that's something that like most people out there can't necessarily [00:05:00] access quite yet, but they just figure it's worth noting that that's another thing that we're doing.
And then. The really exciting thing that we're doing, especially for this platform of the podcast, is an online program starting in January called Fathering From the Heart. And this is gonna be a 12 week kind of initiation, an integration process where we're really diving deep into. What, what it means to be a dad and some of the things that get missed in our transition into fatherhood and how we can make up for what's missed.
And what would you say about it, Dave?
Dave: Well, it's, it's funny. People always say, you know, there's no course for becoming a father. Well, now there is. Mm. [00:06:00] Yeah, that's a big deal to, as, as you all know, it's a big deal to make that transition from from Mortal man to father.
And most of us don't have any kind of support scaffolding ritual marker to to help us through that threshold and. Yeah. We're really, really excited to offer that to the world.
Noah: Yeah. Yeah. And I think one of the exciting pieces for me is that we're offering it in three different ways. And so there's gonna be content, some, some videos, some, you know workbook kind of things, prompts and whatnot. And then there's gonna be, and, and you can just get. That content and do the program self-guided.
But what's more exciting is that we're gonna have [00:07:00] a, a guided version where we'll be meeting up once a week and we will be exploring it as a community. We'll be interfacing and breakout rooms, connecting, talking through what's going on for us, really building a community so that to reinforce the fact that like we're all on this journey together.
Then the version that I'm like actually most excited about and, and hopeful about is, is this idea of, of a group. Of groups. So I'm hoping that there's gonna be dads out there who hear about this. They say, this is dope. I'm gonna invite, oh, this buddy would be interested and this buddy would be interested and this buddy would be interested.
And maybe some of them know other people too. And then we're gonna meet up. Once a week for 12 weeks, or maybe we'll meet every other week for 24, right? Mm-hmm. And we're gonna go through this stuff together and Dave and I are gonna offer some extra support for those groups in terms of [00:08:00] mentorship, how to, how to set up those, those meetings and gatherings and, yeah. And basically my hope is that it seeds men's groups, that these guys kind of like use our program almost like a book club, only as it's a much more interactive and multifaceted book, right? Experience, learning experience, growth experience. And then they work together with each other to, to go deeper, to hold each other accountable, to, to really to create like a. A real meaningful circle.
Dave: Yeah. That's cool. That was your idea. I have to give you credit
Noah: thanks. I mean, it's, it's something that I haven't seen out there in the world and all these like, online programs and I'm, and I'm sure there's reasons logistically it's a little tricky. But the, the other nice thing for the people who choose to do it that way is they'll still have access to all of the other guided stuff that we're doing.
Dave: Yeah.
I mean, we have had men's [00:09:00] groups reach out to us to help get them started and, you know, get them off on their, on their feet. And that's been really rewarding. So, yeah, it's promising.
Noah: Yeah. And so. That's, that's, that program is gonna start in January. Registration opens on the 20th actually with, with this online workshop that we're doing.
And yeah, we're really hoping to maybe just be a little bit of a bigger drop in the, in the bucket of, of manhood and fatherhood and, and. You know, adding, adding goodness into that pool. Adding connection adding, adding love, adding support,
Dave: Yeah, for sure.
so
cohorts
course,
a workshop, [00:10:00] podcast. Mm-hmm. Don't forget about the Substack.
Noah: Yeah.
Dave: out our substack, go onto the council fathers.com website. You can find everything there.
Noah: and I'll just say about the substack quickly, we've been pretty good about sending something out almost every week, and we've also been pretty good about keeping them like short enough that they're easy to read, but like long enough that they have some meaningful depth and and value, so.
Dave: I got a good idea for tomorrow's.
Noah: I can't wait to hear it.
So without further ado, I think we should, we should dive in.
Dave: yeah,
let's do it.
Noah: Okay. We've got an exciting, exciting topic for today. Dave, you want to kick us off?
Dave: Yeah.
We've been talking about. This quote from James Hollis, who we've talked about on the podcast before.
He's a Jungian [00:11:00] analyst and author, and if you haven't read any of his books highly recommend it. But this quote that he, I've heard him say in, in several interviews when he's talking about men in particular, and I wanted to, I wanted us to break that down today and, and talk about it. 'cause I think it's super relevant to the work we're doing.
And I think in part we're trying to address
what
he is describing here in the groups that we're creating. So, can I read the quote and then we'll break it down?
Noah: Yeah.
Dave: Alright, so he says that when, that he, he occasionally gets invited to women's groups to talk about men that women maybe are a little more curious about men than the men are about [00:12:00] women.
And they ask him to come sort of unpack and provide some insight about the. The inner, inner world of, of men. And so he, he will often say to them, and I'm gonna quote here, he'll say, imagine three things.
First of
all, that the close friends that you have, those people with whom you discuss your marriage, your children, your fears, your body, the real important issues in your life.
Those friends are gone forever. You can never speak of those things. Secondly, imagine that the link between you and your guidance source, your guiding source. Call it your instinct, call it your intuition, whatever you call it. That's severed. [00:13:00] And thirdly, imagine that from here on out. Your worth as a human being is largely defined by meeting abstract standards of productivity out there in a competitive world.
Standards that are set by total strangers, he says. Now if you can imagine those three things, you would have some insight into the conditioning of men.
Noah: Mm. And Dave, do you know around when this was?
Dave: when did he say it? Yeah. Well, he's been saying it for years, so I think he wrote this book under Saturn Shadow, which is about the psychology of, of men and their conditioning. I don't remember when that was published, but I would say probably 20 years ago. So he is been [00:14:00] saying it for a long time,
Noah: yeah.
Dave: and he's still, when, when people ask him, he was just on a local or a, a news channel, like a like CNN or something.
He was interviewed alongside Andrew Huberman Huberman.
Noah: Oh yeah, I think I saw some clips from that.
Dave: about men. And, you know, he's in his eighties now and a lot of what he's been talking about for 20 years is still relevant today.
Noah: Okay.
Dave: So I wanted to just sort of break down the quote into those three parts and maybe get your, your thoughts on each of
Noah: Yeah.
Dave: And so the first one he says. Is for women to imagine that their close friends who they discuss intimate details of their lives, like marriage, kids, fears, their bodies [00:15:00] are are gone and you can no longer speak of those things. He suggests that that's part of our conditioning as men.
Noah: Mm.
Dave: What do you think of that?
Noah: I think that I think that there's a lot of, of truth to that. I mean, I think that what I see and hear and feel again and again and again. From the men who I see in private practice and from the men who come to our circles, whether, you know, to our councils is a feeling and a sense of isolation, a feeling and a sense of not having people they can talk to, that they can share with authentically and truly.
And. You know, I'm just reminded actually of our first cohort, [00:16:00] there was a guy who, you know, he was like, wow, this is so incredible. We're sharing so deeply. And he said he went back to his like, group of crew of friends
Dave: Yeah.
Noah: and he tried, he tried to like, get them to have some sort of like meaningful, more like deeper conversations.
And he, he, they just wouldn't go there. Yeah. And so. I think a lot of that has to do with, with conditioning and and I think, you know, some men are internal processors. Maybe they like work through what's going on for them, you know, inside and more than they need to like have a sounding board or but it gets really difficult to sort of know where the, where what is sort of like.
A, a personality trait or a personality quality in terms of like, oh, this is how I am [00:17:00] authentically, and what is a personality trait or that's just been shaped by our culture. And I was sort of, I thought of this metaphor of, of like, let's say masculinity or personality as being water.
Well, water is gonna conform in shape to the vessel that it's in, and if we think of the vessel as culture or as conditioning,
masculinity in, in a, in a pint glass is gonna behave differently than masculinity in a mug.
And it's gonna behave math differently than masculinity in a bowl, and it's gonna behave differently than masculinity. Out in the ocean. Right. You know, and so so it can be kind of challenging to see, well, what's intrinsic to me and my personality and what was conditioned. I mean, that's where therapy and even circle work, even counsel work can, can kind of come in to help us see, [00:18:00] oh, okay, I thought I was showing up this way because, or I, I never knew I was allowed
To share about that,
Dave: Yeah.
Noah: you know?
Dave: Yeah, for sure.
Yeah,
I'd say most men I know. Do have some group of, of guy friends. Like they have a close group of friends and you know, a lot of 'em are people, they could, you know, shoulders, they could cry on ears, they could bend.
Like there is this sort of brotherhood that exists, but it's qualitatively different as you're, as you were saying about. Our first, one of the first cohorts that when, when these same men come into the room, come into the space that we hold counsel, a different [00:19:00] conversation is able to, to emerge and, and, and it's facilitated
Noah: Mm-hmm.
Dave: and it's intentional. But there's sort of a commitment and a container that allows for taking risks and yeah, I think that's one of the things as, as men and and as boys in this culture, it can be hard. It can be.
Risky to take risks. Like it's, it can be dangerous, right? That,
Noah: Well, when you say take risks, I just want to like I hear you say be vulnerable.
Dave: Yeah,
Noah: Yeah. Open up around things that feel scary to open up with [00:20:00] taboo or open up in, in ways.
And around topics where there's potentially fear of rejection or being ostracized
or or teased.
Dave: there's sort of a culture, at least in the us you know, maybe different parts of the US are are different, but as a boy, if you say something, it is susceptible to humor and you know, young humor that isn't always generous or kind. And I wanna be careful, you know, not to pathologize that, you know, you know, kids being children, being children and, and making, you know, having some room to breathe and, and, you know, be sloppy in their communication and, you know, that's important. And it has an impact [00:21:00] over time, you
Noah: the, I I, sorry, not to jump. You just gotta jump in 'cause, 'cause one, one, something that's coming in for me right now is the issue isn't that the kids do that with each other, that they experiment, that they play all their social power games.
The issue is that these kids are being raised in a vacuum without. Elders without adult men who see them, who love them unconditionally, who support them in becoming who they truly and authentically are That, that it's ex sort of, it's exclusively that kind of container that there isn't a parallel container contain, like you were saying before, men.
Most men have actually do have a bunch of good friends, even friends they can confide in, even friends, they can cry on their shoulders. And as deep as that can go and as rich and fulfilling as that might be for them. Socially, there's, there's something else. Even, even, I don't want to use the word bigger, maybe deeper, maybe richer, that [00:22:00] like can be accessible with the right set up.
Yeah.
Dave: and leadership. Yeah. When, when you mention elders mentors there's sort of setting an, an example modeling that can happen. Encouraging. From elders that teaches, yeah, teaches how to interact in a meaningful way, which can include joking and having fun and, and horsing around and goofing off. But you know, I, when I watch my daughter interact with her friends. It's different than how my son interacts with his friends. And one of the differences, you know, I, I notice is that the girls tend to connect verbally more [00:23:00] than the boys.
They, they talk about everything and there's, there's often a lot of drama in the classroom amongst the girls, like, you know. Maybe drama's, not the, maybe that's like a you know, a
Noah: diminutive word. A what? Diminutive.
Dave: yeah. Maybe that's like a,
Noah: patronizing
Dave: It's been co-opted somehow, you know, and, and has a negative connotation. But regardless, there's,
There's a lot of relationship unfolding in, in words you know, connecting, disconnecting, repairing. A lot of that happens at such a young age. And then you watch the boys and they're often, don't talk about things that happen often.
They acted out or, or they, you [00:24:00] know, let it slide or, you know, they, but they don't talk about these subtexts, whereas the girls do seem to, and that's at a very young age, you know, and then I think what you and I have noticed is that,
know, at our age or the stage of life we're in the dads that are coming to us.
Sometimes don't have experience, you know, connecting through words, you know, as much. And again, there's nothing wrong with that, but there's something that happens when you become a father where it's like
there's
another resource that's required, you know, and, and. That resource seems like, how can I express my inner world and have someone else who [00:25:00] has a similar experience to me get it and reciprocate.
That, that seems really important when you're feeling, as you said, isolated and maybe incompetent and overwhelmed and insecure and inadequate. It, it is helpful to hear someone else
say, Hey man, I feel that too. Right?
Noah: Yeah,
Dave: but
we gotta. How do we help people get that up and out so that they can
Noah: when share, that actually segues beautifully to that second piece of being cut off from your own inner.
Voice from your own instinctual sense of what to do or how to do or who to be and 'cause I think that again, [00:26:00] partially to fit in to the world.
A lot of young boys and teenagers and men are forced. Into making the choice to lose touch with that. And I also think that like that's something that maybe needs to be cultivated, right? It's not, it's not a given that all of us are gonna come into the world and know how to hear that small voice from our heart.
And differentiate it from the voice of, you know, Joe who's telling us to be this way and mom and dad who are telling us to be that way. And then, you know 'cause there's a lot of voices telling, a lot of saying a lot of different things and, and so unless there's some. One or some [00:27:00] people, or some setting where it's taught and supported to cultivate an attunement and a connection inward with the heart, with with, you know, the spirit or soul, right?
Then that's not gonna be something that's necessarily gonna be available. And so you compound the sense of isolation from other,
Dave: Yeah.
Noah: with isolation from self. And I see this all the time, people coming in, I don't really know what I want to do with my life. I don't know who I am and not like a 22-year-old who's like figuring it out because that makes sense.
And, and I'm not saying like, oh, like a 35 or a 40-year-old or that there's anything wrong with being at those ages and still kind of being disconnected. Because I think part of the journey is that we get in touch. Make decisions live a certain way, fall out of touch, get back in touch, right? Like, like there is a way in which it's, and we [00:28:00] grow and we change, and so all of a sudden who we thought who we used to be is no longer who we are.
And so then we have to reconnect inward. And, but there, there is not much scaffolding or support or guidance around any of that. Yeah,
Dave: yeah, for sure. I mean, there's, and, and quite the opposite. There's, there's so much support and scaffolding for listening to and following the mandates of external voices, right? External guidance. So we're encouraged to, to follow rules and follow orders and listen to our parents and sort of defer or outsource our guidance to others. And that works, that works really well until it doesn't, you know, and, [00:29:00] and so yeah, it, I see folks that are at a point of diminished returns where they. You know, it's no longer serving them to follow the guidance of everyone else.
Maybe there's a crisis or, you know, an event that happens and they can't look to the outer world for guidance any longer. Right? And so there's this need to turn inward, but as you said, like, you know, if you've never done that before, what are you even looking for? Right? So there's this, there's a
Differentiation between external and internal, and then turns out there's lots of voices on, on the inside too, right? Is this my instinct or is this a, an a voice that I inherited from others? Is this a conditioned [00:30:00] directive from society that. I've, I've adopted as an obligation or as a mandate. So it becomes really hard to even know where to look.
Yeah. And then once we know where to look, it's like, well, we, how do we distinguish who to listen to amongst the crowd in, in between our ears? Yeah.
Noah: Well, and I think that, I mean, again, that like sort of dovetails us into that third piece around being valued for
Dave: production,
Noah: being valued, for contributing economically and, and maybe nothing else or in, in the broader culture as a man.
And how that sort of clouds like, it's like, well, yeah, I'd love to go do some like inner work. I'd love to go on a little retreat, but like, [00:31:00] I got a job. You know, or like, how is that gonna translate into me paying my bills or, you know, so there's this this, this challenge of, of disconnect. And I mean, I just, I keep.
Being brought back to Bill Kins model, which I've for sure referenced before. And, you know, and he talks about these life stages and each life stage having a a cultural task and a a, a soul task.
And the cultural task has to do with like how we fit into our culture and how we participate in culture.
And then the soul task has to do with like uncovering, discovering and then living out our soul essence, our, the essence of who we are, our authentic self, our gifts in this world. And, and a lot like a lot of the [00:32:00] cultural tasks. Are sort of con contingent on a healthy culture, right? And that's one of the themes that comes up is that we live in what he calls an ego-centric culture.
And unless we're living in an ecocentric or a soul centric circle culture, then, then there are all these gaps that we have to like attempt to bridge. And hopefully that's not all too theoretical. Hopefully that's kind of like landing for people. The re the reason I'm bringing it up is, is because, you know, we're starting to use the word sacred a little bit more in, in, in our offerings.
You know, we, we use the word soul, we use the, and I just, you know, these are all words that are trying to point to something. Arguably be ineffable. But, but tangible in terms of how we live our [00:33:00] lives, who there's a qualitative difference when something's infused with, with, with soulfulness. And, and, and it's not like a value.
I'm not saying that like someone who's an expression of their soul is better. But there's just a different quality there. And, and that's a quality that I think enhances the experience of living and, and enhances the richness of connection. And, and that's something I think we're trying to like, bring in to, to the manosphere if you would, a little bit more and into fatherhood.
Yeah, because, wait, there's a, because they're well, because it's missing and because it's the antidote to all three of these like pillars that, that's, I think that, like, that, that sense of reverence. And respect for the [00:34:00] dignity of another person in a circle. That's what creates connection. Deep, deep, meaningful, heartfelt connection between men.
That sense of, of, of dropped into who I am, you know, at the core of my being. That is a, the birthright of all of us, and it's what prevents us from feeling disconnected from ourselves. And then. When we have those two pieces, we can walk out even into a culture that values us for our production and know that our value comes from somewhere else.
Know that maybe I have to participate in this system of, of work and in this participant system of production for money. That's not defining who I am and I know what defines who I am through my own inner knowing and in through what's reflected to me by the men in my life and the women in my life who, who see me in a real way.
Dave: Yeah. Nice. [00:35:00] That's so important. If all that is being reflected in a man is that his worth is based on his ability to make money when at work, when.
In life to do, to succeed in the eyes of society, then it's, then it's real easy to feel like I'm worthless. I don't have value. I feel shame about who I am because I'm not winning right now. I'm not succeeding, I'm not making enough money or I'm not, contributing enough, you know, to that arbitrary standard. But I love how you're describing. If we're surrounded by, if we have a, a sense of, of [00:36:00] that our worth comes from somewhere else, somewhere deeper, somewhere less arbitrary, more meaningful, more tied to our true essence. And if that's reflected by the people around us that's, that's a certain strength that we can rely on, lean into
Noah: and, and I just want to say it's, it's something we also get to share with others.
Dave: Yeah.
Noah: It's, it's when you, when you see. The person, you know, when you're at the checkout counter at the grocery store and you look them in the eye and you say Thank you. You know, like I, I see that you're a person and.
You know, I know I'm rushing to get through this process because I gotta go pick up my kids from school or get home and make dinner. But like, I'm, I'm taking a moment to pause and look you and I, and offer gratitude as it from a human [00:37:00] to a human. You know? You know, and, and like that makes a difference in the world.
And when we, when we remember like. When we're upset about the conflict between our kid and the other kid, and we go rushing into school to the teacher to defend, you know, and then we say, wait a second, there's a human being, they're doing their best and could give them the benefit of doubt. Let's like drop in a little bit and like slow down.
Right? Or like. Someone cuts you off and you're pissed, and then you're like, oh, I don't know what the hell is going on in their life. There's a sense like, we're all just doing our best and like, and, and we can kind of break free. There's almost like a sense of I don't know, like, like counterculture, like
Dave: subversion.
Yeah, Yeah.
Noah: Like treat like by knowing ourselves as humans and as worthy for an inherent. Reason we can see that and know that and reflect that back to every single person that we see
Dave: Yep. Yep. [00:38:00] And this is feedback that we regularly hear from. From dads who go through a cohort is they talk about the ripple
Noah: Mm-hmm.
Dave: right?
And yeah, I just love how you're describing that, that you start to see if you know your own worth, then you start to see the worth in others, right? If you judge your worth based on your own humanity. Then you start to see the humanity and the people around you. Yeah. Cool.
Noah: and I just wanna say, when you know your own worth,
Dave: yeah.
Noah: you can do nothing
but love.
you. Love yourself because all the places that you didn't use to feel worthy around, right? All the places where there was [00:39:00] shame, all there's acceptance, there's, you know, and, and when that's how you are internally within yourself, then how do you think you end up being with your kids?
Dave: yeah.
Noah: do you think you end up being with your partner? How do you think your family system, and it doesn't mean you don't get annoyed with anything you had to say the fourth or fourth time. You know, why are you walking with shoes in the house? Or why won't you put your shoes on to go outside to get in the car?
'cause we're running late. But it means that after you maybe raise your voice and talk more sternly and you're in your car, you say like, whew, I got a little tight there. And I'm sorry,
Dave: Yeah. We say this all the time. I mean, if, if you wanna treat your kids with love, you,
you, you can't beat the shit outta yourself. It just doesn't work. And vice versa. You know, you gotta, you gotta treat. Yourself, how you, how you'd like to [00:40:00] treat others and, and vice versa. Yeah. So starting with this sense of self-worth. Yeah. Which I think we could probably do. Another podcast just on that topic. But anything else you wanna say about this quote or yeah, anything we've, we've
Noah: yes. Yes. The last thing I want to say is here we are bringing in a quote from an elder.
And one of the things that can happen with all of this stuff is that the generations get cut off from each other. Here we are the dads, and then there's the elders, and then there's the kids and that the, the young adults.
And it's just like so stratified. And I just want, I just naming that and acknowledging that, there's, that's maybe like a topic for another episode, but in, in [00:41:00] invoking our elders, I just also want to invoke our ancestors. Like there are, and I, we say this at the beginning of our, of our councils, and we've said this before in the podcast, but there are millennia, millennia of dads being dads of sons, being sons of, of.
This. And, and a lot of it, a lot of it, especially in the past several hundred years is, is intermingled with a lot of lack of health, a lot of pain, a lot of suffering, and yet. There are places in every single one of our lineages, and maybe you have to go back a thousand years, maybe you have to go back 10,000 years.
I don't know. There is a place in every single person's lineage of health. There's a place of resilience, there's a place of strength. There's a place of of being a [00:42:00] beautiful man.
And that we all have that in us, in our lineages, even if it's been really twisted and broken for the past several generations.
And I just wanna name that that, that's living in all of us. And that's a gift kind of reigning down from our past on all of us.
Dave: Amen.
Noah: Amen.
Dave: That was fun.
Noah: Yeah. Yeah.
Dave: Yeah. And I think we're back on the horse.
Noah: Back on the horse. It's exciting. It's good to be back on the horse. We have actually some guests we're gonna be bringing in. And so, so keep your eye open for that.
Dave: other people on other horses
Noah: yeah, other people on other horses.
Dave: we'll ride again.
Noah: Have a great day. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this, share it with another dad.
Just like, hit that like forward little button and just text it [00:43:00] to you know, your brother, your uncle, your friend, the, the other dad at the pickup line.
Dave: Neighbor cousin.
Noah: Yeah. And and if you liked it or didn't like it or would like to see something specific on the podcast email us.
connect@counciloffathers.com. We would love to get feedback. We'd love to get requests, we'd love to get suggestions. Ultimately we're here for you.
Dave: Talk to us.
Noah: All right?
Dave: All right. Be well y'all.
Noah: Be well y'all. Bye-bye.